Update: An event is being organized for K-W; sign up here. Info about rallies in other cities is here.
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There are two Facebook groups I know of that anti-proroguers can join:
* Canadians Against Proroguing Parliament
* Canadians Against Suspending Parliament - Rally for the Cause
On each site, click on the Discussion tab to see information about rallies in cities across Canada, and to add your own ideas. There is more information about events here.
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Sign the petition.
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Harris Decima announced that they did a poll that showed that most Canadians don't care about prorogation. Turns out that the survey was done on December 17-20, nearly two weeks before prorogation occurred.
20 comments:
Harris Decima announced that they did a poll that showed that most Canadians don't care about prorogation. Turns out that the survey was done on December 17-20, nearly two weeks before prorogation occurred.
What needs to boldly underlined in bright flashing letters is that the poll was taken before Christmas and asked about what they thought about what might happen. But now that it has happened, all the probability proportions change, the data should be completely different. Generally when people say that they don't care if something happens, what they are really trying to say is that they will be really upset once it happens.
http://progressivemarxist.blogspot.com/2010/01/kady-omalley-telling-story-way-it-is.html
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I love the smell of desperate Liberal scandal mongering in the evening. :D
May the force be with you! Right now I am plugging Kady O'Malley's opinion into my veins in an IV drip.
Harkov and M-a-M:
Sheesh, you guys really hate Kady O'Malley (I read one of your links). I'm a Kady O'Malley fan (I read her liveblog compulsively during the Schreiber-Mulroney hearings), and I especially appreciate that she frequently brings new information to an issue. I thought she was right on when she called Harris Decima and found out that the poll was taken prior to the prorogation. It was deceptive of them not to mention that.
You can call this scandal-mongering, but I'd call it trying to find an issue that resonates with people. I have strongly disagreed with much of what Harper has done (politically and policy-wise), but so far he's skated by. I for one don't want a Harper majority.
As a side note on the M-a-M link, it amazes me how often, when men disagree with a woman, they express their disagreement as an intent to physically harm her, with details of what they want to do her. Couching that desire as something you want your wife to do to her doesn't make it any less creepy.
I agree with you Yappa. If a guy who disagree's with a woman voices that disagreement by threatening to harm her, his arguement was on pretty shakey ground to begin with.
More on the Prorogation issue is a little while.
OK, I'm back.
This whole anti-prorogation issue could easily backfire on the Liberals. If they try to fan the flames of discontent that may exist out there, what happens in the spring when Parliment is back in session, and Iggy ends up supporting the Conservatives budget yet again ?.
Hi Bert,
First off, it's not the Liberal party who are fanning the flames of anti-prorogation. In fact, the Facebook groups are deliberately nonpartisan. Liberal leadership hasn't commented on this, as far as I know, other than to say that they're _not_ going to take any action such as MPs meeting in protest.
If this were Harper's first prorogue, I don't think anyone would be much fussed about it. It's the fact that it's the second time in a year: last year he did it to avoid a non-confidence vote, and this year he did it to shut down an investigation into Afghan detainees. This is very, very troubling. About 1,000 people an hour are joining the Facebook group. Whether the interest in this issue will continue after the hockey game starts this afternoon is another question. ;-)
As to your point about the opposition not bringing down the government, this is just the way minority governments work. We can't have an election every week. Ignatieff's decline in the polls all date from his statement in the early fall that he would no longer support the government. The public, quite rightly, does not want to have frequent elections. When the Conservatives are in opposition in a minority government, they face exactly the same situation.
Yep. Facebooks anti-prorogation membership has up to 25,000 members. The Facebook anti-coalition membership went up to 125,000 in one week.
Hi Bert,
Canadians didn't buy the coalition, and the Liberal party listened. They got rid of Dion and brought in Ignatieff. Ignatieff killed the coalition. He had the votes to turf Harper and become prime minister, but he didn't do it.
As to why Canadians didn't buy the coalition, a lot of that was due to the government's scare campaign, including an ad and media blitz, that sold Canadians the lie that the coalition was undemocratic and that government would be run by "separatists and socialists". It demonized Quebec and the NDP, and spread the lie that the majority of MPs do not have the power to form a government. That was a real low point in our history.
I wonder if Ignatieff gets the Globe and Mail at his family villa in the South of France where he is vacationing? Meanwhile, Stephen Harper is apparently in Ottawa still working…
Yappa, this just occurred to me. If the Liberal punished Dion because of public backlash, why are Layton and Duceppe still leaders in their respective parties ?. They didn't seem to loose much support.
Hi Bert,
Since you changed the subject, I assume that you agree with me that Michael Ignatieff was the hero of the coalition situation. ;-)
Your speculation as to what Ignatieff is doing now is amusing but wholly without substance. Ignatieff is hardly the lolling-about type: in fact, he's one of the most accomplished people in the world, and has risen to the top of several professions: he has held senior academic posts at the University of Cambridge, the University of Oxford, Harvard University and the University of Toronto; he has written over a dozen non-fiction books and three novels, as well as screenplays and a play; he is an influential and prolific journalist; and of course is leader of the opposition.
This is someone who knows how to maximize his productivity. If he has chosen to be away from Ottawa for a couple of weeks, I am sure he is using his time well.
Hi again Bert - As to your question about leadership, the NDP and Bloc weren't the leaders of the coalition. The Bloc wasn't even _in_ the coalition: it just agreed to support it.
But the main thing was that Dion screwed up. There was that late, out of focus, poorly voiced video, but even more damning (for me) there was his performance in the house during that period, in which he sputtered and shouted shrilly. I posted about it at the time. Dion totally blew it.
Uh, that is symantics, Yappa. Maybe the Bloq wasn't going to have any MP's in the coalition, but they signed the agreement.
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/
2008/12/01/coalition-talks.html
Back to the prorogation issue. If the prorogation of parliament is so bad, why did we not hear the same complaints in 1996, 1999, 2002 and 2003 — when it was all about former PM Jean Chretien forces versus the now former PM, Paul Martin forces?
And what about the November 12, 2003 prorogation — that PM Chretien could avoid having to table the Auditor General’s report on his watch, in what would become ”the sponsorship scandal.” ?.
Follow the link to hear more:
http://www.justpolitics.info/
2010/01/06/
liberal-media-hypocrisy-
over-prorogation/
Bert:
No, Bert, the Bloc did not sign the agreement. And regarding your argument that what Harper did must be ok because Chretien did it earlier, you may be familiar with the idea that 'two wrongs don't make a right'.
There is little to compare between the Chretien and Harper prorogations. Chretien's may have been wrong - I don't know - but Harper has silenced the majority of Parliament TWICE IN ONE YEAR by proroguing. Using prorogation to circumvent the will of parliament is virtually unheard of and is very, very scary. We let him get away with it once BUT NOT AGAIN.
For more information, see my next post.
Harper is actif mor and more like a facist. If he coul;d he would govern without all the cheks and balnces included into Canada's way or governing. He would exclude the parlement and the judges.
Let's stop him!!!!
Yves Gauthier
Quebec
For those who claimed that the Dec 17 poll on prorogation were valid, the latest polls show very different results... 58% are now opposed. Hmmm.
Ferd, Yes, the Bloc DID indeed sign the document. Check out the link I submitted from the CBC.
The Bloc was not part of the coalition. They agreed to not act against it.
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