Saturday, September 26, 2009

Leadership in Canada

Twenty things everyone should know about Stephen Harper and his Reform-Conservative government, by Dan Lauzon via Warren Kinsella:

  1. They rigged a self-serving and politicized infrastructure stimulus program so that most of the money could land in Conservative-held ridings, delaying projects so much that only 12% are in construction and creating jobs.

  2. He called Canada "second-tier socialistic country” and a “Northern European welfare state in the worst sense of the term."

  3. They put Canada on track for a deficit before the recession hit and now holds the record of the largest deficit on record at 56 billion (and climbing).

  4. They failed to plan for the H1N1 flu by delaying the order of the flu vaccine and sending body bags to remote communities instead.

  5. They spent 5 times more on self-promotion than informing the public on how to protect themselves from H1N1?

  6. In the past two months, he has twice failed to defend Canada’s healthcare system against outrageous attacks from ultra-right Conservatives n the United States.

  7. He kept Ministers in his cabinet who called the medical isotope crisis they helped create "sexy" and made jokes about the listeriosis crisis.

  8. He broke his promise not to raise taxes with a $13 billion EI payroll tax.

  9. They pick and choose when to protect the rights of Canadian citizens at home and abroad.

  10. He called women, minorities, the disabled, and gays and lesbians “left-wing fringe groups” and Canada’s independent judiciary “left-wing ideologues.”

  11. He keeps a Minister in his cabinet who openly mused about putting 10-year-olds in jail.

  12. He denied that the country was in a recession and failed to plan for it, and only agreed to provide economic stimulus after causing a constitutional crisis.

  13. He said he doesn’t care if “Canada ends up as one national government or two national governments or several national governments, or some other kind of arrangement.”

  14. He holds the record for unelected Senate appointments for a single year — 27, more than any Prime Minister in Canadian history – after saying he would never appoint Senators.

  15. He has presided over the loss of nearly a half million high quality fulltime jobs since October, with no plan to replace them with the next generation of jobs.

  16. He has pushed for amending the Canada Health Act to allow for-profit-pay-as-you-go Medicare in this country and abdicated any federal role in ensuring its guiding principles of public administration, comprehensiveness, universality, portability, and accessibility.

  17. He said "There will be no special status, formally or informally, for Quebec or any other province."

  18. He pushed for further deregulation and less oversight over banks and financial institutions.

  19. He has done nothing to address the hollowing out of corporate Canada due to a weakening in foreign takeover rules.

  20. He bragged that he was opposed to government programs to eliminate child poverty and promote cultural identity.


###

42 comments:

Tomm said...

Why are you just regurgitating official Liberal Party talking points?

Wouldn't it be more fun to engage in debate?

Let's talk about Cauchon...
the Burlington field...
how about the Government of Canada stimulus ads?
The week in New York and Pittsburgh...

There has to be something real to talk about. If not, than why are you doing this? Out of spite?

It's the 9th round and you've got nothing left. Have your corner throw in the towel and hit the showers.

penlan said...

Tomm,
I always "hit the showers" after reading your Con "talking points". You're everywhere posting your idiotic comments.

Big Winnie said...

Let's talk about the Burlington Field...How is that a "Shovel Ready" project when it wasn't going to be worked on until 2010 or later? I know, it's "shovel ready" as long as the reform/CON say it is and it's in a reform/CON riding. How the hell did they qualify for funding?

Tell me Tomm...I'm listening

kirbycairo said...

Tomm is the type of guy who supported the Nazis and when people pointed out that they were killing people and starting wars he would say "why are you just regurgitating anti-Nazi propaganda?"
It reminds of Woody Allan's Love and Death when Keaton says to Napoleon "You're a dictator and you start wars" and Napoleon says "Why is she reciting my credits?"
You have to understand people like Tomm agree with Harper's effort to destroy Canada's social democracy so he actually likes all those points you made. You can't fight such ideology with facts. As Thomas Paine said "Time make more converts than reason."

Anonymous said...

As a Liberal, I sure hope the War Room can come with some better material soon.

Lizt. said...

I hope the war room comes up wih some good ads...this morning's polls are ridiculous.

Yappa said...

I don't know if commenter #5 is really a Liberal or is a Conservative troll, but I disagree completely. I rarely post quotes from other sources, but this one is so good it deserves wide repitition.

There's a reason that Conservatives are making a special effort these days to discredit Warren Kinsella. Ignatieff is going to change the old Liberal approach epitomised in Dion's snowshoe ad. Kinsella has the kind of fight instinct that we need. This list is admittedly pretty tame, but we'll get there. After years of vicious personal attack ads from the Conservatives, we need to get tougher. I hope we'll never become bullying asseholes like Tomm or Harper, but it's time to take off the gloves.

wilson said...

Take off the gloves?
Like 'soldiers in our streets' 'disintegrating Canadian flags' type attacks?
That is sooooo 2004.

Today, Angus Reid released the 4th poll in a row putting Liberals at 29%.
Harper towers over MI in leadership, and he did it by showing leadership, not with attack ads.

While Liberals are wrestling with rebuilding and messaging (what all parties do in opposition),
Harper has done a decent job of running the country.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/701421

Yappa said...

Wilson is so funny. Like "soldiers in the streets" years ago has anything on years of lies that personally attack our leaders. The Dion "Gallic shrug" ads particularly offended me because they showed a xenophobic reaction to a classic European gesture. Conservatives run their vicious, personal attacks year in, year out - not just during election campaigns. Sure it's effective - That's why politics in the US has become such a blood sport. Every round of negative Conservative ads puts their polls up.

As to your unsubstantiated assertion that Harper is doing a good job running the country, I refute that in post after post.

Anonymous said...

The Harper government record has been synthesized into a core list of accomplishments.

1. Age of consent legislation – from 14 to 16 effective May 1, 2008 (Link)
2.Agent Orange compensation package of $96 million –$20,000 to all veterans and civilians who lived within 5 kilometers of CFB Gagetown in N.B.when Agent Orange was sprayed over a seven day period in 1966 and 1967 (Link)
3.Apology to Native people – by Government of Canada on June 11, 2008 for residential school abuses (Link)
4.Canada Employment Credit of $1000.00 (Link)
5.Child Tax Credit ($2000 for every child under eighteen) (Link to all the family tax credits)
6.Chinese Head Tax Apology– by the government on June 22, 2006 (Link) (Link)
7.Chinese immigrant provision of $20,000 to every individual and/or surviving spouses who paid the head tax plus $24 million towards an “historical recognition program”(Link)
8.Columbia Free Trade Agreement – signed at the Asia-Pacific
9.Economic Co-operation meeting in Lima, November 21, 2008 (Link
10.Disability Savings Plan, part of the 2007 budget, it was fully implemented in December, 2008 (See this link for further details and eligibility requirements.)
11.Doer, Gary, former NDP Manitoba Premier, appointed – the Ambassador to the United States on August 28, 2009 (Link)
12.Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario – officially launched on August 13th, 2009 in Kitchener- Waterloo, Canada’s fifth such regional organization (Link)
13.European Free Trade Association – Canada Agreement – signed on July 2, 2009 — between Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland (Link)

Anonymous said...

14.Food Labelling Initiative – to clarify and modernize labelling on food products, including “Product of Canada” and “Made in Canada” claims (Link) (Link)
15.GIS — Guaranteed Income Supplement Improvements – for seniors, changed to allow for higher earned income – (Link) (Link)
16.GST — Goods & services tax cut from 7% to 6% and then to 5% (Link)
17.Hep C compensation redressed – for latest court rulings that clear the way for national $1 billion package (Link), as well as how to apply for compensation (Link)
18.Income splitting for Canadian seniors and pensioners (Link)
19.Indian Residential School Settlement Agreement (Link)
20.Jordan Free Trade Agreement – signed by Canadian and Jordanian government officials and reported on June 28, 2009 (Link)
21.Kid’s sport tax credit (up to $500 per child) (Link)
22.Kuwait Foreign Investment Promotion & Protection Agreement (FIPA) — completed in April 2009 (Link)
23.Land Claim Agreements – five-point plan for Aboriginal Canadians (Link) — to compare the years the Conservatives have been in power to previous years (Link)

OH BY THE WAY...I have 20 more...

Yappa said...

Anonymous -

What a strange list. Much of it was blatant attempts to buy votes from various groups. Some of it, like tax-splitting, was a panicky reaction to a total policy snafu (promising not to tax income trusts and then taxing income trusts). Some are watered down versions of initiatives Harper cancelled from the previous Liberal government, like daycare and reformed relations with first nations. But by all means, give us your next twenty.

...by the way, your xrefs don't work. In blogger comments, you can use the classic html right-angle-bracket a href="URL" left-angle-bracket TEXT closing-a-tag. (I hope that makes sense... I don't know how to present html in a comment.)

I may be hot under the collar on this, but I do appreciate debate.

CanadianSense said...

Yappa I don't need to post talking points from any blogger to refute your posts.

EVERY single Poll clearly show Ignatieff as a leader has not made any difference in the minds of voters.

The October 2008 was a historic low and a 3% bump since Dec 09 is not a great record.

Angus, Ekos, Nanos all point to more bad news for the Liberals.

Canadians see Harper as better suited than Ignatieff to tackle the economy (33 per cent to 23 per cent), health care (23 to 16) and crime (38 to 12). The Liberal leader is more trusted by Canadians than Harper on the foreign affairs file (30 per cent to 28 per cent) but, said Shanoff, "that's not a substantive policy area that we stay up at night thinking about. It's the economy, it's health care, it's other things that we think Stephen Harper is doing a decent job with."

The poll found that 27 per cent of Canadians favoured Harper as prime minister, compared to 16 per cent for Ignatieff and 12 per cent for NDP Leader Jack Layton.

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/701421

Yappa said...

CanadianSense -

We're all aware that Conservatives are leading in the polls, but it doesn't mean much till we have an election. Case in point: Kim Campbell was way ahead of Chretien in the polls just before she called an election, and we all know how that turned out: Campbell got 2 seats and Chretien got a majority.

Ignatieff has been leader of the party for less than a year. He spent the first eight months focusing on getting up to speed and raising money. He has weathered the first round of Conservative hate ads pretty well. Now he's signalled that he's in fighting mode: no longer propping up the government, starting to run ads, geting more specific about issues. So we'll see what happens. You sound pretty smug about the polls, but don't let your arrogance get the better of you.

Tomm said...

Yappa,

I got some people riled up and now there is a discussion/debate going on.

You should give me a little credit for this rather than call me a "bully".

Big Whinnie, the essence is that the CPC made a decision that 1)all projects included other government partners, 2)the money was for specific projects, and 3)the money was going to flow over two years. Each of these caused money to delay. Throw in the time of year (tail end of a fiscal AFTER the next fiscal planning had already occurred) and delays just happen. For Gerard Kennedy to demand Liberal ridings get more is just outrageous. You support these guys? For Gerard Kennedy to also demand that the Liberal MP present the project is also disengenuous. It is a ruse to get your attention. Don't react like a blackbird to the Liberal bright shiny objects.

KirbyCairo, I love that you have linked me with the Nazi's. That shows a level of debate that you don't often see. Put a governor on yourself. And yes I am like a character in a Woody Allen movie. Wrong character and wrong movie. Keep guessing.

Yappa said...

Tomm -

Your second comment was much less bully-ish and more content-ful. Thank you.

First problem, the stimulus delays:

See Stimulus funding slow in coming, mayors complain from June. We knew earlier this year that the stimulus money had to be sped up or the projects couldn't go till next summer. Yet the Cons dragged their feet. They never wanted to enact stimulus (despite the entire western world and the IMF agreeing it was necessary) and they only did it because the coalition forced them to. Yet they deliberately delayed rolling out the money.

Why does it matter? For several reasons. We need stimulus: Unemployment is still rising and the economy is still very vulnerable. Several European countries are doing much better than us because they were serious about enacting stimulus promptly. Just this week the G20, IMF and Bank of Canada Governor Mark Carney all issued statements affirming that we must not back off on stimulus now.

Plus, if stimulus money rolls out too late, when the economy really is on the rebound, it would not only be a waste of money but it could cause inflation. Inflation would be disastrous.

Second problem: The Conservatives used the stimulus money to disproportionately fatten their own ridings. The Liberal report (Conservative Economic inAction Plan) spells this out very clearly. These aren't idle claims: they're proven facts.

And yes, thanks for starting the debate. It's a good one and I'm glad that there are commenters with different perspectives. :)

Tomm said...

Yappa,

Thanks for that.

I totally agree about the reason for the onset of the stimulus spending. The Harper government just didn't want to go there. They saw Britain and the US commit huge sums of taxpayers money and Harper just didn't want to take Canada the same place. So the response was delayed.

They were forced to do what they did by howling media/political pressures and international commitments (G8/20 team play).

We can debate the values around huge deficit spending for stimulus purposes (I think you know the side I'd take) but it seems pointless at this time. Two years looks to be a good time frame since unemployment is still rising. Perhaps a third year may be required, but if so, I would stretch money into the third year to disburse it rather than commit new money.

With respect to which ridings the money is going to, this is an explosive issue. If there is proof of the Conservative's making decisions that help their ridings and hurt Liberal ridings, than the Liberal's better produce it, and soon. And even if they do (although they have shown nothing in this direction at all right now) it still may not stick since the other shoe is that voters should vote Conservative.

But worse for the Liberals, is if appears not to be, than they have just pronounced that they demand more money to Liberal ridings by their very rhetoric. It makes the Liberals look corrupt (and arrogant since they aren't even in power). Given Adscam, and a new untainted leader, this is likely a bad part of the swamp for Ignatieff to be swimming in.

In addiiton, everybody has their own local knowledge to pull from. I live in a non-Tory riding, and there is stimulus money all over the place. You can't swing a dead cat without hitting some. The Liberal message has no credibility where I live.

Yappa said...

Hi Tomm,

Stimulus doesn't work that way. Timing is all important. What you're proposing is like a fireman saying, "I see your house is burning down and you're trapped inside; I'll come back next month and help you."

Besides the negative consequences of applying stimulus too late, it throws away billions of dollars. In a recession, the deficit is going to rise because of reduced tax revenue and higher social payments: a stimulus package actually offsets that reduction in the deficit by keeping the economy going. When we're not in recession, stimulus spending is just jacking up the deficit.

There is a disturbing trend I'm hearing these days from Conservatives that they WANT to be isolationist. The other day Bert said in a comment that he believes we should blow off Obama because he's a Democrat: and reiterated it even when I pointed out that Canada loses if we don't coordinate with the US.

In the case of stimulus, Canadian Conservatives don't seem to get it but everyone else does: this is a multinational effort to improve the economy. That's why the IMF keeps urging countries to meet their stimulus targets, to spend their stimulus effectively (ie not on tax cuts) and to do it soon. The IMF is highly right wing, but apparently not right wing enough for Canadian Conservatives.

So many things in Conservative strategy seem like a lame rip-off of George Bush, who also refused to cooperate internationally. Bush's strategy was disastrous for the world, leaving us in our current mess. But even more: the US can get away with that stuff to some extent because it's the most powerful country in the world. We're a pipsqueak by comparison.

PS: I don't know where you get the claim that Liberals want a disproportionate amount of stimulus funding to go to Liberal ridings. That's absurd. As to your assertion that they better produce some proof: Read their report. I linked to it in my last comment.

CanadianSense said...

So in your world Polls are not facts but meaningless?

A Liberal MP produces an incomplete report and your refer to it as a fact?

Those two points make most of the rest of your points mute.

During the campaign in 2008 the unemployment was?

Hint the rate dipped below 6% and reached a level unseen until 1974. (Sept 2008)

The CPC launched small affordable campaign promises. On website still.

The other parties introduced $ 30-50 Billion platforms.

Every single party promised a balanced budget.

So everyone is lying, no one predicted the depth/severity of the recession?

The Liberal may have deleted their campaign 2008 and the spending promises.

In November 2009 the opposition decided the CPC wait and see approach was sufficient to replace them.

*The opposition ignored the Billions already planned for infrastructure passed in previous budgets.($ 33 Billion)

The GG closed the HOC 1 week before XMAS holiday break.

Iggy was not interested in participating in EAP and wanted the CPC to wear the recession.

The recession has been short and deep. Fragile recovery is on the way. Employment is a lagging indicator.

The Public did not blame the CPC for the Global Recession. Opposition did

They demands Billions and stalled the plans in the senate. When did EAP get Royal Assent?

Iggy stalled the $ 3 Billion stimulus until he was forced to fight a campaign again.

In Sudbury Iggy demanded an election-Harper Time is UP!

Liberal math? They do not have the power to call an election, they can only withold their confidence.

The NDP and Bloc have stepped up to keep the CPC in power.

The Polls reflect the decision of the Liberals latest stunt to threaten another election.

The Liberal can issue daily press releases, set up faux protests with 5-10 people.

They can continue to shake their fist in the air demanding changes.

The Liberals have no power unless they find a majority of MP's to adopt their policy or motion.

The other parties are not interested in September to play games.

Those 10% from the Bloc and NDP pointing out Liberals are voting against EI benefits for long tenured employees, Home Reno Credit etc..

Comparing 2008 vs 2009 6 month is too short term.

The entire year will demostrate how many more Liberals are donating.

In 2008 contributors measured in quarter from Elections Canada
17k high point vs 2009 19k highpoint for an increase peaked at 2,000 contributors so far.


So again you refer to some financial advantage.

They are up $ 100k in the first 6 months vs all of 2008.

The CPC broke over $ 20 million from small donations from 35k contributors.

I still don't understand why you bring up financial strength comparison.

Yappa said...

Hi CanadianSense,

I'm sorry - your reply is so long and scattered that I won't be able to really respond to it. You think I claimed some sort of financial advantage for the Liberals? You think I claimed that polls don't matter? My points were quite rational and true so I don't know what I can add to them.

But re your assertion that there was no difference on economic projections in the last election campaign: that's just wrong. We knew that Harper called the election early (in contravention of his own fixed-election law) because he was hiding a big deficit and wanted to have the election before it came out. We also said that we needed to nkow the real numbers before we could say what to do. You can't run a government that's non-transparent and deceptive and then complain that the opposition don't have the facts.

CanadianSense said...

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fullcomment/default.aspx

This latest press release sums up the Liberal Party.

Yappa said...

Maybe it sums it all up but the link doesn't work.

CanadianSense said...

http://www.liberal.ca/en/newsroom/media-releases/16404_capitulayton-chronicles

Official Press Release from the Liberal Party.

I don't expect you to refute the earlier post. Those ramblings are just facts. Rewriting history is something I have seen from all parties.

In September each party leader was invited to PMO residence to see if any support for CPC legislative agenda existed.

Every leader in front of cameras said NO support.

The GG upon those public statements and advice dissolved parliament.

Only the opposition leaders, democracy watch, blogger feel that way anything was broken.

The courts, elections results in October 2008, Polls 2009 indicate the opposite. (or don't care?)

It is okay to favour your political party, but if you were to stick to facts vs liberal talking points, you would find we have some common ideas.

Instead you choose to attack without reservation the government and use selective bits of information to paint a picture that does not exist in the minds of most Canadians.

Can you link when the date "deficit" took place?

Yappa said...

Hi again, CanadianSense,

I dunno, I think we live on different wavelengths. I just don't get what you're saying. But I _think_ that your basic argument is that the Conservatives are ahead in the polls, which equals having the support of more Canadians, which means that any criticism of them is invalid. You may want to reevaluate that.

Re the link to a Liberal press release that lists what the NDP has supported this week, I'm against that. In fact I wrote a post arguing just that earlier today.

CanadianSense said...

Criticism on policy is great! Silly attacks are turning off the voters.

The Liberals need to provide an alternative and drop the W.K. smears.


Voters decide who governs through the ballot box and they will throw out the CPC when they are ready.

Use the opposition day to introduce alternative policies for debates and votes.

The opposition are chasing silly stuff and not doing their job and the press release sums up the focus of opposition talking points for months.

GM bailout of $ 10.5 billion debate did not exist. The opposition are just rolling over to billions without any serious debate. They would rather chase unsexy comments.

Anonymous said...

Canadian Sense = Canadian Nonsense. Enough already!

Tomm said...

Yappa,

I don't see the George Bush or isolationist look from Harper you seem to see. When he came to power he immediately oped the door to the US administration. The Liberal government had closed and bolted it. There was never any question in my mind that Harper would be just as friendly to the new US administration. The reasoning from the CPC wasn't partisan, it was that we need to get along with these guys. Too much was held up because of bad blood (e.g. joint work after 9/11, the border, the softwood lumber deal, the switch from Canada as best buddy to Britain as best buddy, and other items that could be named). Harper just wanted to start resolving those things.

Harper has also opened doors with latin america re: free trade, and the same with several other countries. He has committed to NATO much more heavily and has continued the work Martin started with the G8/20. He has not been isolationist, but in fact has opened Canada up. He has also shown Israel that we are someone they can count on.

None of this is isolationist. The visa issues with Czech Republic and Mexico HAD to be done and in fact both are working. Refugee claims are way down for both countries.

Yappa said...

Re isolationist, I was thinking of Harper's half-assed cooperation on enacting a stimulus and his rude behavior at the UN climate change conference last week... not only did he skip Obama's talk to do his donut run, but he also reportedly skipped a lot of other meetings and left a very poor impression. He also hasn't appointed very good Ministers of Foreign Affairs, er - remember Maxime Bernier? But you're right that he hasn't done nothing internationally.

Re the opposition only doing "silly attacks" - that report on stimulus spending that Iggles released this week was far from silly. It's very important, and the report is well-researched.

CanadianSense said...

Yappa

It is good to see you remove the Liberal incomplete Report as a fact to well researched.

How do you define 'well researched'?

Kennedy has had 3-4 staff work on this so far, do you have the details and has a third party without political bias reviewed the incomplete report findings?

The concept is 100%, to audit the efficiacy of the money spent.

I suspect the auditor will find problems with several projects.

Yappa here is another question if the Liberals who are using increase the Gas Tax and hand it over to the city, what checks and balances are in place?

Did the Federal Government make a mistake by negotiating all three levels be involved?


You are in favour of the Federal gov't simply sending Billions without negotiating?

Yappa being critical of the government inaction is fair, attacking the Government for not attending speeches on any subject because (Liberals, NDP, Bloc opposition) members are upset does not matter to the voters.

Actions speak volumes. Canada has chided it G8 members for talking about promises.

Canada is meeting it obligation in Aid to Africa and has increased it.

Do some reseach about promises from summits and who is getting the job done.

Take off the Liberal blinders and ask yourself if the average voter is connenting with the complaints and if those complaints are fair or logical.

Shipments to remote reserves included body bags. It was a routine shipment, but aboriginal friendly to the Liberal Party, CBC staged a faux outrage demostration.

Those communities have a much higher mortality rate for many reasons and delivery of supplies will be reduced during the winter.

The Chalk River Facilit is another example of the oppositio playing games.

Reseach the issue. Chalk River was to be shut down in 2000. Maple Reactors were to be online in 2000. Read the auditor general and third party assessments. The Liberals knew of the shortage and problems with Chalk River and NEVER did a Plan B for isotope supply. They spent millions trying to get Maples to work. (Liberal boondoggle)

In 1991 Chalk River leaked 18,000 litres of water.

Google the Chalk River facility history and the money trail.

Did you know the isotopes we make are sold to the US market?

If we are losing taxpayers money why are we funding private/public companies for industries that are not self sustaining?

The automakers and isotopes?

Bert said...

Yes, let's talk about leadership, something the LPC is sadly lacking. Frome "Angry In The Great White North":

Martin Cauchon, a former Liberal justice minister, wanted back in politics, and insisted that he be allowed to run in the riding of Outremont, his old riding. Ignatieff's Quebec lieutenant had reserved the riding for businesswoman Nathalie Le Prohon, and had publicly announced that Cauchon would not be running in Outremont. Ignatieff publicly supported Coderre, for about a day. Coderre was humiliated by Ignatieff when Ignatieff caved into pressure from Cauchon and from rival Bob Rae. Ignatieff abruptly turned 180 degrees, tossed Le Prohon and Coderre aside, and gave Cauchon exactly what he had demanded from Michael Ignatieff.

This is leadership?

CanadianSense said...

Yes this is the leadership the LPC seem to demand we want for PM.

Dion was a better leader.

Maybe they will ask Jean Chretien to return.

Yappa said...

Hi Bert,

To quote Adam Radwanski in the Globe: "it's a sign of just how facile our political culture has become that we interpret recognizing your mistakes, and correcting them, as a sign of weakness."

This is not a power feud between Ignatieff and Rae, as AITGWN suggests. This is protection of party unity.

And Ignatieff didn't parachute Couchon in: he allowed there to be a vote and Couchon won. Plus he found another riding for the female candidate.

This decision was a big challenge for Ignatieff and he handled it brilliantly. On to the election!

CanadianSense said...

Except for doing it in the public and forcing his QC to resign.

Denis Coderre had to resign after the public flip flopping.

This should have been down in private and 24 hours MAX.

Yappa said...

I don't know enough about Quebec politics to have much of an opinion, but my guess is that it's good that Coderre is out. He was a powerful person and Ignatieff gave him a chance, but he started acting badly and had to go. Sometimes these things just have to be done in public. Big deal.

CanadianSense said...

Yappa,

your post reflects your lack of management experience.

As a Manager, you are responsible for your TEAM. You don't let a decision that challenges your authority go without punishment.

Iggy had several MP's and Liberals openly challenge his authority.

If you manager people and departments you would understand the serious mistake this was and the ramifications for his own leadership.

Iggy has now Bob Rae, Cauchon, Coderre who openly challenged him publicly after he made a decision.

Coderre did the responsible decision and resign after losing the confidence of his boss.

Now the carrot or collar is off, what will stop Coderre from launching attacks against the masters outside QC charge?

Intelligent Boss-simple version

Picks good managers and gets out of the way.

My boss picked me to do the heavy lifting and clean out the deadwood in our organization.

If the deadwood go over my head and to make peace sides with the deadwood he refutes his wisdom in picking you and encourages deadwood to make end runs.

Look up Tom Peters/Jack Welsh re management.

Yappa said...

Hi CanadianSense -

There are different schools of management. As we have seen over the last few years, the Harper SoM is all about the centralization of power. This sort of manager appoints weak sub-managers so he can he can always call the shots. That sort of management style leads to cabinet ministers leaving confidential NATO documents at their mafia-related-girlfriend's house and a dozen people dying of listerious. Pardon me if I don't hope my party emulates it.

It seems that Conservatives would like to try to create a sense of discord in the Liberal party, but it's not there. There's a more general issue here, and that is the anti-democratic approach taken by the Harper Conservative party. It's been going on for a few years now. I previously wrote about it here. Besides the dirty tricks pulled by Cons, there's Harper's goal of trying to bankrupt the Liberal party.

There's no point arguing with you - you think all your dirty tricks are justified as long as you win the game - right?

CanadianSense said...

Only a small number of people think Harper, Trudeau, Chretien did not run a tight ship.

If you were a manager of people, departments you would understand this post.

Iggy has only so much 'capital' or goodwill as a leader. He has been wasting it and destroying his brand with every mistake.


Chain of command (look it up)

Either you trust your "pick" to make the difficult/right decisions or you recruited the wrong people and it points again back to you in your recruitment.

Denis was the following the right vision and direction of Iggy or he was not. This matter should have been private an 24 hours. The End Run and public statements of other Liberals was a clear shot at Iggy.

The same thing happened in the NFLD MP's.

His authority is completely undermined and Coderre can become a Garth Turner in your ranks. Loose cannon with powder.

Yappa said...

CanadianSense -

I didn't even finish reading your last comment because you're being a jerk. There is no justification for attacking me personally. In any event you're just making a fool of yourself trying to pretend you're intellectually superior, as your comments are incoherent.

penlan said...

Yappa,
I wouldn't bother responding to CanSense. This person is leaving negative & degrading comments all over Liblogs. They are, as you know, just a Con troll with their talking points & trying to cause division. Don't bother feeding this moron. There are other Con trolls doing the same thing everywhere. Ever since Ignatieff decided to no longer support Harper & goons these nuts have been coming out in full force denigrating anyone who does not agree with them. Typical Cons.

Have really been enjoying your posts lately.

CanadianSense said...

Penlan,

Do you like to make personal attacks?

Yappa has a blog and we are debating the leadership pitfalls.

If Yappa did not want traffic and posts he would only allow posts with approval.

Yappa can delete and request blogger not return.

Sadly your ideas of debate is to suggest it is futile to have any dialogue with persons who don't agree with your version of reality and name calling.

Canadians deserve better.

penlan said...

Wasn't talking to you CanSense. No need to reply to a comment I made to Yappa.

Yappa said...

Hi Penlan,

Thanks very much for the support and confirming my suspicion... I had actually deleted the last two posts from CanSen because of their content (I'll only leave the last one because you replied to it), and will continue to do that with Conservative bloggers who are just here to dump crap. One guy, for example, pasted huge long bits of unrelated Con propaganda into several comments.

It's a real pity that the Conservative party uses such undemocratic "dirty trick" tactics. Civilized people are trying to have a dialog, and Conservatives just want to shout them down. In this case, there seems to be a concerted strategy to infiltrate and mess with online discussions by other parties.

It's funny how they keep claiming that they have the support of Canadians, when their tactics aren't about winning support, but about creating fear and confusion... winning at all costs.